Post by ResLight on Feb 15, 2013 18:42:41 GMT -5
I have edited some material from the old forums and added them to the study at:
prophecy.reslight.net/?p=56
I am reproducing below what I added to the study:
We have been asked the question: "Are you suggesting that the 144,000 are not in heaven as spirit creatures, but on earth?"
If this is meant to ask if we believe that the 144,000 do not receive spiritual bodies in the resurrection, we do indeed believe that they will receive spiritual bodies in the resurrection. If it is meant to ask if we believe that the 144,000 are in heaven when they are sealed out of the twelve tribes, no we do not believe that they are heaven when they are sealed, but rather, that they are still on the earth, and do not receive spiritual bodies until they are raised in the first resurrection.
The question has been asked:
First, let us note that the scripture does not state that the great multitude are "called out" of the great tribulation. Their calling is the of the same calling as all during the Gospel Age. Those who are called out are called out of, separated from, the world reckonenedly, being justified, and no longer reckoned with the world as "sons of disobedience", "children of wrath." (Ephesians 2:2,3) The initial calling out, separation from the world, does not designate the one called out as already having attained the prize of joint-heirship with Jesus. All who are called out of the world are first placed on the level of being earthly, on the same plane of life as Adam had before Adam sinned; afterwards, if they attain the mark of the prize of the high calling, then they are reckoned as being joint-heirs with Christ, and to receive a heavenly, spiritual body, in the resurrection.
There is nothing in Ephesians 4:4,5 that says that all who are called out will receive heavenly, spiritual bodies in the resurrection. Of course, all in this age are called in the one hope of the high calling, but not all attain that reward. It should be self-evident that not many of those who are called out will attain the "prize of our high calling," that is, joint-heirship with Jesus. Paul surely did not intend for this to be read as to meaning that all will have the same reward. Nevertheless, all are being called to reach out for the mark of prize of our high calling, and in this sense one might say that we all have that one hope; this does not mean that all will reach that mark so as to attain that hope. Strictly speaking, however, the "one hope of our calling" is in God through Jesus, and Jesus' return, regardless of reward. -- 1 Timothy 1:1; Titus 2:13; 1 Peter 1:3,13.
We have been asked:
Our understanding is that no one is of the church class except that they be spirit begotten. Those who are spirit-begotten in general during the Gospel Age are first made part of the Israel of faith, represented in Revelation 7 as the twelve tribes of Israel. Out of these twelve tribes of the Israel of faith are selected the joint-heirs, represented in Revelation 7 as the 144,000 who stand on the heavenly Zion with the Lamb. (Revelation 14:1) Added to the church toward the end of the ae are the great multitude who eventually come out of the great tribulation, and finish their overcoming after the great tribulation. All three classes are the church; all three classes are spirit-begotten.
As far as "nominal" is concerned, it depends on what meaning one gives to the word. If by nominal one means "in name only," none who are Christians "in name only" are part of the church. Such are tares, weeds, that have been planted amongst the wheat, the true Christians, by Satan. However, if by nominal one means "minimal," then all the spirit-begotten who fail to attain the prize of the high calling can be called "nominal" Christians in this sense, in that they maintain a minimal acceptance, but do not "overcome" in this age.
How is that they can be spirit-begotten, if they do not receive spiritual bodies in the resurrection? It has been often assumed that spirit-begotten means to be begotten again as a spirit being rather than as a human being. To begotten again, however, signifies that, in this life, a "seed" has been planted by God, as spoken of in 1 Corinthians 15:35-37. God give (assigns) that seed a body according to what is sown, whether it be a celestial, spiritual body, or whether it be a terrestrial, physical body. However, that which is assigned to seed is first earthly, terrestrial, and only if the sowing reaches the point of being proven incorruptible in this age, is it assigned the celestial, or spiritual body. (1 Corinthians 15:45) All must eventually put on incorrution (1 Corinthians 15:53), whether in this age, or in the next age, but only a very few do so in this age.
No one becomes of the church class without being called and begotten of the spirit; such "begettal" does indeed give a new life to a new creation equal to what Adam lost, that is, on the earthly plane. The new creature in this life, however, is not the body that is to be, but rather a bare grain, a seed, that has to die. (1 Corinthians 15:36-38) It will be given a body in the resurrection according to what has been sown. It is up to the new creature then to be cultivated as the grain, so as to attain the prize. One only attains the resurrection of Jesus, attaining the mark, through full sacrifice of what has been initially reckoned, that is, the sinless earthly life, as reckoned through faith in the blood of Jesus. Such demands a full development of perfect love, faith and hope amidst a world of sin. If one does not complete that sacrifice before death, the scriptures seem to indicate that such a new creature simply remains on the earthly plane.
The following studies might be helpful:
With What body Will We Be Raised?
The Manner of the Resurrection
Born of the Spirit
prophecy.reslight.net/?p=56
I am reproducing below what I added to the study:
We have been asked the question: "Are you suggesting that the 144,000 are not in heaven as spirit creatures, but on earth?"
If this is meant to ask if we believe that the 144,000 do not receive spiritual bodies in the resurrection, we do indeed believe that they will receive spiritual bodies in the resurrection. If it is meant to ask if we believe that the 144,000 are in heaven when they are sealed out of the twelve tribes, no we do not believe that they are heaven when they are sealed, but rather, that they are still on the earth, and do not receive spiritual bodies until they are raised in the first resurrection.
The question has been asked:
If the great multitude come out of the nations during this present evil age and are an earthly class, in what manner would they be then "called out?" in light of Ephesians 4:4-5?
First, let us note that the scripture does not state that the great multitude are "called out" of the great tribulation. Their calling is the of the same calling as all during the Gospel Age. Those who are called out are called out of, separated from, the world reckonenedly, being justified, and no longer reckoned with the world as "sons of disobedience", "children of wrath." (Ephesians 2:2,3) The initial calling out, separation from the world, does not designate the one called out as already having attained the prize of joint-heirship with Jesus. All who are called out of the world are first placed on the level of being earthly, on the same plane of life as Adam had before Adam sinned; afterwards, if they attain the mark of the prize of the high calling, then they are reckoned as being joint-heirs with Christ, and to receive a heavenly, spiritual body, in the resurrection.
There is nothing in Ephesians 4:4,5 that says that all who are called out will receive heavenly, spiritual bodies in the resurrection. Of course, all in this age are called in the one hope of the high calling, but not all attain that reward. It should be self-evident that not many of those who are called out will attain the "prize of our high calling," that is, joint-heirship with Jesus. Paul surely did not intend for this to be read as to meaning that all will have the same reward. Nevertheless, all are being called to reach out for the mark of prize of our high calling, and in this sense one might say that we all have that one hope; this does not mean that all will reach that mark so as to attain that hope. Strictly speaking, however, the "one hope of our calling" is in God through Jesus, and Jesus' return, regardless of reward. -- 1 Timothy 1:1; Titus 2:13; 1 Peter 1:3,13.
We have been asked:
Would you be saying that the "church" would then be made up of both "spirit begotten" and also nominal believers?
Our understanding is that no one is of the church class except that they be spirit begotten. Those who are spirit-begotten in general during the Gospel Age are first made part of the Israel of faith, represented in Revelation 7 as the twelve tribes of Israel. Out of these twelve tribes of the Israel of faith are selected the joint-heirs, represented in Revelation 7 as the 144,000 who stand on the heavenly Zion with the Lamb. (Revelation 14:1) Added to the church toward the end of the ae are the great multitude who eventually come out of the great tribulation, and finish their overcoming after the great tribulation. All three classes are the church; all three classes are spirit-begotten.
As far as "nominal" is concerned, it depends on what meaning one gives to the word. If by nominal one means "in name only," none who are Christians "in name only" are part of the church. Such are tares, weeds, that have been planted amongst the wheat, the true Christians, by Satan. However, if by nominal one means "minimal," then all the spirit-begotten who fail to attain the prize of the high calling can be called "nominal" Christians in this sense, in that they maintain a minimal acceptance, but do not "overcome" in this age.
How is that they can be spirit-begotten, if they do not receive spiritual bodies in the resurrection? It has been often assumed that spirit-begotten means to be begotten again as a spirit being rather than as a human being. To begotten again, however, signifies that, in this life, a "seed" has been planted by God, as spoken of in 1 Corinthians 15:35-37. God give (assigns) that seed a body according to what is sown, whether it be a celestial, spiritual body, or whether it be a terrestrial, physical body. However, that which is assigned to seed is first earthly, terrestrial, and only if the sowing reaches the point of being proven incorruptible in this age, is it assigned the celestial, or spiritual body. (1 Corinthians 15:45) All must eventually put on incorrution (1 Corinthians 15:53), whether in this age, or in the next age, but only a very few do so in this age.
No one becomes of the church class without being called and begotten of the spirit; such "begettal" does indeed give a new life to a new creation equal to what Adam lost, that is, on the earthly plane. The new creature in this life, however, is not the body that is to be, but rather a bare grain, a seed, that has to die. (1 Corinthians 15:36-38) It will be given a body in the resurrection according to what has been sown. It is up to the new creature then to be cultivated as the grain, so as to attain the prize. One only attains the resurrection of Jesus, attaining the mark, through full sacrifice of what has been initially reckoned, that is, the sinless earthly life, as reckoned through faith in the blood of Jesus. Such demands a full development of perfect love, faith and hope amidst a world of sin. If one does not complete that sacrifice before death, the scriptures seem to indicate that such a new creature simply remains on the earthly plane.
The following studies might be helpful:
With What body Will We Be Raised?
The Manner of the Resurrection
Born of the Spirit
