Post by ResLight on Jun 4, 2014 16:17:13 GMT -5
Regarding our statements on our site that Russell did not change the end of the Gentile Times from 1914 to 1915, one has claimed that Russell did, before 1914, change the date to 1915. We were provided with a quote from the Watch Tower, December 1, 1912, regarding this, and the person contends that the changes in the Studies in the Scriptures were Russell's changes, disregarding what we have provided in analysis of those changes in our research provided at:
ctr.rlbible.com/?p=692
ctr.rlbible.com/?p=3036
and
ctr.rlbible.com/?p=1556
From: Watch Tower 1912 Dec 1 pp. 377
This quote corroborates what I have said elsewhere, and is in harmony with Russell's change of view of 1904, that is, that the time of trouble was to begin, not end, when times of the Gentiles end. This is one of the places that Brother Russell acknowledges that the theory of some who believed that the Gentile Times would end in October of 1915 rather than October of 1914. It quoted from the same article referenced before, that "The Ending of the Gentile Times".
This article is online at:
www.mostholyfaith.com/bible/reprints/Z1912DEC.asp#Z377:1
As best as I can determine, Russell first presented this idea in 1904, in the sermon entitled, "Times of the Gentiles Nearly Run Out." This sermon was given before Russell had changed his viewpoint concerning the "time of trouble" (which change of view was presented a few months later, in the July 1, 1904, issue of the Watch Tower), and thus it does not reflect that change of viewpoint. In that sermon he, evidently laying aside his usual reasoning of "whole years", reasoned that 606 would really be 605 1/4 years BC and that 2520 years later 1914 3/4 years later which would be October of 1915. This was the argument that some Bible Students were using, evidently with the claim that 606 BC to 1914 AD would have to add a year "zero" between BC 1 to AD 1 to make it 2520 years. Their argument, however, disregarded the fact that the chronology used was desginated in whole years from October to October, thus, from the beginning of 606 BC to the end of 1914 AD and the beginning of 1915 AD would be 2520 whole years
Actually as P. S. L. Johnson pointed out in a letter to Russell in 1916 just before Russell died, the whole year chronology that Russell had been using (which had been adopted from Barbour) would make the October beginning of 606 to be 606 1/4 years BC (actually 607 BC); 2520 years later would be 1913 3/4 years AD, with is actually October of 1914. Russell died before he had chance to respond to Johnson's letter. That letter is found in Appendix Note 1 of the LHMM edition of "The Time Is At Hand", beginning on page 367.
See this sermon "Times of the Gentiles Nearly Run Out" online at:
www.mostholyfaith.com/bible/newspaper_sermons/NS01.asp#NS24:2
Did Russell, by his sermon in 1904, change the date 1914 to 1915? Evidently, he was simply offering that as a suggestion, not that he was changing the date of the end of the Gentile Times to 1915. This can be seen in his many statements regarding 1914 between the years of 1904 up to an including 1914, including the article in which he announced his change of viewpoint concerning the "time of trouble" as beginning, not ending, in 1914, in the July 1, 1904 issue of the Watch Tower.
In November of 1904, Russell quote a newspaper article, and wrote as related to that article:
"it so closely coincides with our expectations, based on the divine Word -- regarding the ending of "Gentile Times" in October, 1914, when will follow the "time of trouble such as was not since there was a nation;" -- the anarchous period which will in divine providence be followed by the Kingdom rule of everlasting righteousness." -- Watch Tower, November 1, 1904, page 324.
In October 1904, Brother Russell wrote in response to a letter regarding the article that had appeared in the June 1, 1904 issue of the Watch Tower:
This shows that he had not, by his earlier statements in his sermon, meant that to be viewed as changing 1914 to 1915.
In 1906, Russell wrote:
In 1909, Russell responded to the question:
This shows that he had not, in 1909, replaced 1914 with 1915. Russell's answer above, however, assumes whole years counted from October to October, and does not add any "year zero" between BC 1 and AD 1.
One can find many more quotes between 1904 up to 1912 in which Russell continues to speak of the Gentile Times as ending in October of 1914, thus he, himself, had not meant his statement in 1904 to be viewed as changing when the Gentile Times were to end.
As I have already shown by his statements between 1912 on up to and after 1914, Russell never changed 1914 to 1915.
Continued from the quote of Watch Tower 1912 Dec 1 pp. 377:
Here Brother Russell speaks of the trouble that comes before the final crash, which is in harmony with the view he presented in 1904, that the time of trouble was to begin in 1914, except that here he has added the alternate view that had been held by some that the Gentile Times would end in 1915 rather than 1914, which, if this had been true, would have meant that the trouble would begin in October of 1915, with the final crash some time after October of 1915.
The article in which he presented the view that the time of trouble was to begin, not end, in 1914, may be found at:
ctr.rlbible.com/?p=702
Other articles referred to may be found in the relevant issues at:
www.mostholyfaith.com/bible/reprints/index.asp
Continued from the quote of Watch Tower 1912 Dec 1 pp. 377:
Russell here refers to Morton Edgar's parallel that would mean that the time of trouble would last one year, that is, from October of 1914 to October of 1915. Brother Russell discussed this parallel in 1904, saying:
Thus, in 1904, Russell rejected the idea that the time of trouble was to last for one year, at least, as based on the parallel. In 1905, however, Russell presented Brother Edgar's parallels regarding this without comment. He also presented the views of U. G. Lee, who presented parallels that indicated that the time of trouble was to last for six years, and thus to end in 1920. -- Watch Tower, June 15, 1905, beginning on page 179.
www.mostholyfaith.com/bible/reprints/Z1905JUN.asp#Z179:1z
U. G. Lee's chart may be seen at:
rlbible.com/images/r3579.jpg
The general consensus amongst most Bible Students appeared to be to accept Edgar's parallel, and thus the idea that the time of trouble would last for one year, that is, from October of 1914 to October of 1915, became prevalent amongst the Bible Students. Russell acknowledged this viewpoint several times between 1905 on up to 1914; nevertheless, his acknowledgement of 1915 as possibly being the end of the time of trouble is totally aside any idea that Russell had changed the end of the Gentile Times from October of 1914 to October of 1915.
Nothing in citing the changes in the Scriptures Studies actually proves that Russell actually autorized those changes. Russell reported his authorized changes to his STUDIES in the pages of the Watch Tower; I have presented those authorized changes in my research presented at:
ctr.rlbible.com/?p=692
The changes in question are indeed not included in what is reported as being changed.
It is claimed that NOTHING Russell ever predicted came true.
Indeed, nothing came forth EXACTLY as Russell had expected; one of the things that he expected was "warfare"; I do believe that in 1914 peace was indeed taken away, and while there have been periods of time when, at least to the public eye, there has been no open warfare, warfare has in reality continued either openly or covertly ever since 1914.
Of course, whether NONE of Russell's expectations came true or not is not the real point; Russell never claimed to be a prophet, and he disclaimed that his expectations were prophecies. Nor did Russell speak as being the head of an organization, as do the members of the JWs' governing body. Russell constantly refused to assume such a position.
However, even the apostles were wrong in their expectation that Christ was going to set up his kingdom in Jerusalem. Russell did not claim to have any special way of knowing for certainty what would happen, only that he did believe that Gentile Times would end in 1914, and even in this he admitted several times that he could be wrong. Indeed, one of the "expectations" that Russell presented is that possibly NOTHING would happen in 1914, or 1915.
ctr.rlbible.com/?p=692
ctr.rlbible.com/?p=3036
and
ctr.rlbible.com/?p=1556
We remind the readers, however, that nothing in the Scriptures says definitely that the trouble upon the Gentiles will be accomplished before the close of the Times of the Gentiles, whether that be October, 1914, or October, 1915.
From: Watch Tower 1912 Dec 1 pp. 377
This quote corroborates what I have said elsewhere, and is in harmony with Russell's change of view of 1904, that is, that the time of trouble was to begin, not end, when times of the Gentiles end. This is one of the places that Brother Russell acknowledges that the theory of some who believed that the Gentile Times would end in October of 1915 rather than October of 1914. It quoted from the same article referenced before, that "The Ending of the Gentile Times".
This article is online at:
www.mostholyfaith.com/bible/reprints/Z1912DEC.asp#Z377:1
As best as I can determine, Russell first presented this idea in 1904, in the sermon entitled, "Times of the Gentiles Nearly Run Out." This sermon was given before Russell had changed his viewpoint concerning the "time of trouble" (which change of view was presented a few months later, in the July 1, 1904, issue of the Watch Tower), and thus it does not reflect that change of viewpoint. In that sermon he, evidently laying aside his usual reasoning of "whole years", reasoned that 606 would really be 605 1/4 years BC and that 2520 years later 1914 3/4 years later which would be October of 1915. This was the argument that some Bible Students were using, evidently with the claim that 606 BC to 1914 AD would have to add a year "zero" between BC 1 to AD 1 to make it 2520 years. Their argument, however, disregarded the fact that the chronology used was desginated in whole years from October to October, thus, from the beginning of 606 BC to the end of 1914 AD and the beginning of 1915 AD would be 2520 whole years
Actually as P. S. L. Johnson pointed out in a letter to Russell in 1916 just before Russell died, the whole year chronology that Russell had been using (which had been adopted from Barbour) would make the October beginning of 606 to be 606 1/4 years BC (actually 607 BC); 2520 years later would be 1913 3/4 years AD, with is actually October of 1914. Russell died before he had chance to respond to Johnson's letter. That letter is found in Appendix Note 1 of the LHMM edition of "The Time Is At Hand", beginning on page 367.
See this sermon "Times of the Gentiles Nearly Run Out" online at:
www.mostholyfaith.com/bible/newspaper_sermons/NS01.asp#NS24:2
Did Russell, by his sermon in 1904, change the date 1914 to 1915? Evidently, he was simply offering that as a suggestion, not that he was changing the date of the end of the Gentile Times to 1915. This can be seen in his many statements regarding 1914 between the years of 1904 up to an including 1914, including the article in which he announced his change of viewpoint concerning the "time of trouble" as beginning, not ending, in 1914, in the July 1, 1904 issue of the Watch Tower.
In November of 1904, Russell quote a newspaper article, and wrote as related to that article:
"it so closely coincides with our expectations, based on the divine Word -- regarding the ending of "Gentile Times" in October, 1914, when will follow the "time of trouble such as was not since there was a nation;" -- the anarchous period which will in divine providence be followed by the Kingdom rule of everlasting righteousness." -- Watch Tower, November 1, 1904, page 324.
In October 1904, Brother Russell wrote in response to a letter regarding the article that had appeared in the June 1, 1904 issue of the Watch Tower:
The brother errs in supposing that we have changed our view of "Gentile Times." Those "times" or years are 2520, with a definite beginning in B.C. 606, and a definite ending, A.D. 1914. We know of no reason for changing a figure: to do so would spoil the harmonies and parallels so conspicuous between the Jewish and Gospel ages. -- Watch Tower, October 1, 1904, page 296.
This shows that he had not, by his earlier statements in his sermon, meant that to be viewed as changing 1914 to 1915.
In 1906, Russell wrote:
Thus, in their due time, matters are shaping around for the termination of Gentile rule in anarchy by the appointed time -- by October, 1914, when their lease or permit will expire. -- Watch Tower, December 1, 1906, page 371.
In 1909, Russell responded to the question:
QUESTION (1909)--5--If the "Times of the Gentiles" began in October, 606 B.C., will they not end in October, 1915, instead of October, 1914?
ANSWER.--We think not. If the brother or sister who wrote the question will go over the chronology, they will find that these Times will end in October, 1914. You should remember that in figuring chronology you count backward from A.D. for the 606, and forward from A.D. for the 1914.
ANSWER.--We think not. If the brother or sister who wrote the question will go over the chronology, they will find that these Times will end in October, 1914. You should remember that in figuring chronology you count backward from A.D. for the 606, and forward from A.D. for the 1914.
This shows that he had not, in 1909, replaced 1914 with 1915. Russell's answer above, however, assumes whole years counted from October to October, and does not add any "year zero" between BC 1 and AD 1.
One can find many more quotes between 1904 up to 1912 in which Russell continues to speak of the Gentile Times as ending in October of 1914, thus he, himself, had not meant his statement in 1904 to be viewed as changing when the Gentile Times were to end.
As I have already shown by his statements between 1912 on up to and after 1914, Russell never changed 1914 to 1915.
Continued from the quote of Watch Tower 1912 Dec 1 pp. 377:
The trouble doubtless will be considerable before the final crash, even though that crash come suddenly, like the casting of a great millstone into the sea. (Rev. 18:21.)
Here Brother Russell speaks of the trouble that comes before the final crash, which is in harmony with the view he presented in 1904, that the time of trouble was to begin in 1914, except that here he has added the alternate view that had been held by some that the Gentile Times would end in 1915 rather than 1914, which, if this had been true, would have meant that the trouble would begin in October of 1915, with the final crash some time after October of 1915.
The article in which he presented the view that the time of trouble was to begin, not end, in 1914, may be found at:
ctr.rlbible.com/?p=702
Other articles referred to may be found in the relevant issues at:
www.mostholyfaith.com/bible/reprints/index.asp
Continued from the quote of Watch Tower 1912 Dec 1 pp. 377:
The parallel between the Jewish Harvest and the present Harvest would corroborate the thought that the trouble to the full will be accomplished by October, 1915.
Russell here refers to Morton Edgar's parallel that would mean that the time of trouble would last one year, that is, from October of 1914 to October of 1915. Brother Russell discussed this parallel in 1904, saying:
We find that some have concluded that because anarchy destroyed the Jewish nation in the one year following their "harvest," therefore we should expect that the one year, from October 1914 to October 1915, following the Gospel age "harvest," would measure the period of universal anarchy coming. We cannot agree to this conclusion, because the type or parallel goes no further than the end of the forty years' "harvest" in both cases--October 69, where the year A.D. 70 began, and October 1914, where the year 1915 A.D. will begin (Jewish reckoning). The anarchy period lies entirely outside of any dates or reckonings furnished us. It may be one year or more. The "elect" are not to be in it, and as for their interest in friends who may experience its sorrows we now know our Father's character and plan so well that we dare trust our friends as well as ourselves to his loving care, assured that God's provisions will be the wisest and best. -- Watch Tower, August 1, 1904, page 230.
Thus, in 1904, Russell rejected the idea that the time of trouble was to last for one year, at least, as based on the parallel. In 1905, however, Russell presented Brother Edgar's parallels regarding this without comment. He also presented the views of U. G. Lee, who presented parallels that indicated that the time of trouble was to last for six years, and thus to end in 1920. -- Watch Tower, June 15, 1905, beginning on page 179.
www.mostholyfaith.com/bible/reprints/Z1905JUN.asp#Z179:1z
U. G. Lee's chart may be seen at:
rlbible.com/images/r3579.jpg
The general consensus amongst most Bible Students appeared to be to accept Edgar's parallel, and thus the idea that the time of trouble would last for one year, that is, from October of 1914 to October of 1915, became prevalent amongst the Bible Students. Russell acknowledged this viewpoint several times between 1905 on up to 1914; nevertheless, his acknowledgement of 1915 as possibly being the end of the time of trouble is totally aside any idea that Russell had changed the end of the Gentile Times from October of 1914 to October of 1915.
Nothing in citing the changes in the Scriptures Studies actually proves that Russell actually autorized those changes. Russell reported his authorized changes to his STUDIES in the pages of the Watch Tower; I have presented those authorized changes in my research presented at:
ctr.rlbible.com/?p=692
The changes in question are indeed not included in what is reported as being changed.
It is claimed that NOTHING Russell ever predicted came true.
Indeed, nothing came forth EXACTLY as Russell had expected; one of the things that he expected was "warfare"; I do believe that in 1914 peace was indeed taken away, and while there have been periods of time when, at least to the public eye, there has been no open warfare, warfare has in reality continued either openly or covertly ever since 1914.
Of course, whether NONE of Russell's expectations came true or not is not the real point; Russell never claimed to be a prophet, and he disclaimed that his expectations were prophecies. Nor did Russell speak as being the head of an organization, as do the members of the JWs' governing body. Russell constantly refused to assume such a position.
However, even the apostles were wrong in their expectation that Christ was going to set up his kingdom in Jerusalem. Russell did not claim to have any special way of knowing for certainty what would happen, only that he did believe that Gentile Times would end in 1914, and even in this he admitted several times that he could be wrong. Indeed, one of the "expectations" that Russell presented is that possibly NOTHING would happen in 1914, or 1915.
