Post by ResLight on Jan 26, 2014 0:25:08 GMT -5
The question has arise concerning belief in the ransom for all, including Adam, and fellowship with Christians who do not believe this.
I am firm on the belief in the ransom for all, and that the whole ransom falls all apart if Adam is not included in the ransom. I am totally and firmly convinced that "ransom for all" is scriptural, and that if Adam is not raised, then there has been no ransom for all at all, and no reason for the belief in any hope offered in the ransom. I am completely and totally firm on the belief that the trinity doctrine is false and unscriptural, for if it were true, then there has been no ransom sacrifice at all. I am totally and completely firm that the doctrine of the inherent immortality of the human soul/spirit is totally and completely unscriptural, again conflicting with the very basis of the ransom. I am totally and firmly convinced that belief in the "oneness" doctrine is unscriptural. I am totally and thoroughly convinced that the doctrine of any consciousness between death and the resurrection is unscriptural. I am totally and thoroughly convinced that many other doctrines that others consider to be so important are totally and completely unscriptural. Do I separate myself from Christians who believe in those doctrines? Not completely, for I do from time to time meet with groups that believe in the trinity, immortal soul, etc. Often the division comes from them, once having learned what I believe. On the other hand, many seem to be at least tolerant toward what I believe.
There are some groups that I will not meet with. I once went to a Bible Study that was advertised in one of the Southwest Philadelphia newspapers, which was advertised as "non-denominational". I arrived just as the meeting was starting; it was being led by a lady who called upon every one to pray. Everyone in the place was yelling, shouting, all at once, and evidently speaking in what I am sure they would call "unknown tongues". The woman leading the group could be heard over all. She was speaking in what sounded like some form of Hebrew, and she repeated "Baali" (my Baal, Master, Lord, Husband) many times. I could feel a loathing presence in the room that I could only say was demonic, as though the demons present were mocking my presence there. I prayed and asked Yahweh to remove the spirits that were present there. Almost immediately after I prayed, the woman in front began shouting over and over again, with a strong and disturbed tone of voice, "I am Lord God! I will not be put out!" I believe what I prayed was delivered by the Heavenly Father to whatever spirit(s) present, and that the spirit(s) spoke through the woman in reply. And at the same time the thought came to me that that house was dedicated to worship of those demons, and that I should leave. I believe that thought was given to me at that instant by God's holy spirit. So I left some literature on the seat where I was, and left. So I am much more careful now, and try to find out something about a Bible Study group before I attend.
I will not attend groups that are extremely authoritarian, such as the Jehovah's Witnesses. I have attended some of their meetings after I left them, and I was told to arrive at the time the meeting was to start (not early), to stay in the back of the "hall", and to say absolutely nothing to any one, and to leave as soon as the meeting was over. I was told I could attend the meetings in the "hall", but none of the "book studies" or talks in the private homes. So now I do not attend meetings of any group that would be of such a nature, since in reality the very nature of such a group causes a division.
However, I do not let belief in the doctrines such as trinity, oneness, etc., stop me from meeting with others who might believe those doctrines, nor would I let one's belief that Adam will not be raised stop me from meeting with a group that might believe that Adam will not be raised, if they would be willing to accept me even though I believe to the contrary.
However, there are some practices that groups present that I cannot participate in, such as giving, or swearing, of allegiance to the alleged "holy trinity". Usually groups that do this will not tolerate non-belief in the trinity.
However, when I am with a group, that, for instance, teaches the trinity, I do not go out of my way to bring attention to the trinity as a false doctrine, but if the topic does come up, and, if I am allowed to present what I believe, I will do so while being as tactful and respectful as possible. I have found that there are trinitarian pastors and elders, teachers, will, at least tolerate me.
Neverthess, there are some who won't tolerate one who actively does not believe in the trinity. I think of my experience with a "Bible Baptist Church" (KJV only believers). The mode of their worship service was so that I felt totally uneasy all through the program. The conversation I had with the pastor and one of the elders showed that they had no tolerance at all for one who did not believe in the trinity, hell with blazing fire to torture for all eternity any who did not believe in the trinity, etc. So I will probably never attend another "Bible Baptist Church" again, except that I might receive some assurance of tolerance before I attend.
I am firm on the belief in the ransom for all, and that the whole ransom falls all apart if Adam is not included in the ransom. I am totally and firmly convinced that "ransom for all" is scriptural, and that if Adam is not raised, then there has been no ransom for all at all, and no reason for the belief in any hope offered in the ransom. I am completely and totally firm on the belief that the trinity doctrine is false and unscriptural, for if it were true, then there has been no ransom sacrifice at all. I am totally and completely firm that the doctrine of the inherent immortality of the human soul/spirit is totally and completely unscriptural, again conflicting with the very basis of the ransom. I am totally and firmly convinced that belief in the "oneness" doctrine is unscriptural. I am totally and thoroughly convinced that the doctrine of any consciousness between death and the resurrection is unscriptural. I am totally and thoroughly convinced that many other doctrines that others consider to be so important are totally and completely unscriptural. Do I separate myself from Christians who believe in those doctrines? Not completely, for I do from time to time meet with groups that believe in the trinity, immortal soul, etc. Often the division comes from them, once having learned what I believe. On the other hand, many seem to be at least tolerant toward what I believe.
There are some groups that I will not meet with. I once went to a Bible Study that was advertised in one of the Southwest Philadelphia newspapers, which was advertised as "non-denominational". I arrived just as the meeting was starting; it was being led by a lady who called upon every one to pray. Everyone in the place was yelling, shouting, all at once, and evidently speaking in what I am sure they would call "unknown tongues". The woman leading the group could be heard over all. She was speaking in what sounded like some form of Hebrew, and she repeated "Baali" (my Baal, Master, Lord, Husband) many times. I could feel a loathing presence in the room that I could only say was demonic, as though the demons present were mocking my presence there. I prayed and asked Yahweh to remove the spirits that were present there. Almost immediately after I prayed, the woman in front began shouting over and over again, with a strong and disturbed tone of voice, "I am Lord God! I will not be put out!" I believe what I prayed was delivered by the Heavenly Father to whatever spirit(s) present, and that the spirit(s) spoke through the woman in reply. And at the same time the thought came to me that that house was dedicated to worship of those demons, and that I should leave. I believe that thought was given to me at that instant by God's holy spirit. So I left some literature on the seat where I was, and left. So I am much more careful now, and try to find out something about a Bible Study group before I attend.
I will not attend groups that are extremely authoritarian, such as the Jehovah's Witnesses. I have attended some of their meetings after I left them, and I was told to arrive at the time the meeting was to start (not early), to stay in the back of the "hall", and to say absolutely nothing to any one, and to leave as soon as the meeting was over. I was told I could attend the meetings in the "hall", but none of the "book studies" or talks in the private homes. So now I do not attend meetings of any group that would be of such a nature, since in reality the very nature of such a group causes a division.
However, I do not let belief in the doctrines such as trinity, oneness, etc., stop me from meeting with others who might believe those doctrines, nor would I let one's belief that Adam will not be raised stop me from meeting with a group that might believe that Adam will not be raised, if they would be willing to accept me even though I believe to the contrary.
However, there are some practices that groups present that I cannot participate in, such as giving, or swearing, of allegiance to the alleged "holy trinity". Usually groups that do this will not tolerate non-belief in the trinity.
However, when I am with a group, that, for instance, teaches the trinity, I do not go out of my way to bring attention to the trinity as a false doctrine, but if the topic does come up, and, if I am allowed to present what I believe, I will do so while being as tactful and respectful as possible. I have found that there are trinitarian pastors and elders, teachers, will, at least tolerate me.
Neverthess, there are some who won't tolerate one who actively does not believe in the trinity. I think of my experience with a "Bible Baptist Church" (KJV only believers). The mode of their worship service was so that I felt totally uneasy all through the program. The conversation I had with the pastor and one of the elders showed that they had no tolerance at all for one who did not believe in the trinity, hell with blazing fire to torture for all eternity any who did not believe in the trinity, etc. So I will probably never attend another "Bible Baptist Church" again, except that I might receive some assurance of tolerance before I attend.
