Post by ResLight on Jan 7, 2014 11:45:44 GMT -5
Some claim that one can see Almighty God in their alleged "God the Son", but one cannot see Almighty God as the alleged first person of God. It is, in effect, claimed that several saw the substance of God in the Old Testament, but they did not see substance of God the Father, but rather they saw the substance of the Son of God. (Right away, this would mean contradict the idea that Jesus and his God are the same exact substance.)
Did Abraham See Jehovah God?
I do not know of any scripture that says that Abraham ever saw the actual spirit being of Jehovah. Jehovah did not lie when he told Moses: "man may not see me and live." -- Exodus 33:20.
Of Jesus, Paul wrote that he now dwells in "in unapproachable light; whom no man has seen, nor can see." (1 Timothy 6:16, World English) Paul spoke of two general different levels of glory: the celestial and the terrestrial. (1 Corinthians 15:39-40) He did not mix the two glories.
Did Moses See Jehovah God?
Again, I do not know of any scripture that says that Moses ever saw the actual spirit being of Jehovah. Jehovah told Moses: "You cannot see my face, for man may not see me and live." (Exodus 33:20) This agrees with what John wrote: "No one has seen God at any time." (John 1:18) I have no reason to think that Jehovah lied to Moses, or that John was lying. I certainly have no reason to call upon the spirit of human imagination so imagine, assume and add to the scriptures that Jehovah is more than one person, and then, based upon that assumpion, further imagine, assume and add to the scripture that while one cannot see one of the alleged persons of Jehovah, they can see another of the alleged persons of Jehovah. The Bible never even presents any idea or concept that Jehovah is more than one person at all at any place or at any time. He is ALWAYS presented as being one person. The idea that Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is more than one person or individual HAS TO BE added to, and read into, the scriptures.
If this was Jesus who made appearances to Moses and Abraham, and one can see the Son of God, but one cannot see the Father of the Son of the God, this would in some way imply that Jesus is not "fully" or "wholly" God (as is often claimed by the trinitarians that each person of their triune god is each fully/wholly God Almighty). To be consistent, one would have to come to the conclusion that the substance of Jesus is not fully the same substance as the Father, since it is being assumed that one cannot see the substance of the Father while one can see the substance of the Son.
Did Jacob Fight With Jehovah God Face-to-Face?
Jacob did fight with one of the angels -- the elohim of Psalm 8:5; Hebrews 2:7 -- of Yahweh face to face. Nevertheless, an angel of Yahweh speaks the words of, acts for, and represents Jehovah; from a human standpoint it would seem as though it were God Almighty himself, just as angels may appear and seem to be "men". -- Genesis 18:2; Joshua 5:13; Judges 13:6; Ezekiel 9:2,3; Zechariah 1:8,11; Mark 16:5; Luke 24:4; John 20:12.
See my studies:
Jacob's Prevailing Prayer
binfo.rlbible.com/?p=218
They Saw God -- Was It Jesus?
jesus.rlbible.com/?p=5024
More studies related to "Angel of Yahweh"
jesus.rlbible.com/?cat=72
What About Genesis 11:5?
Genesis 11:5
And Jehovah came down to see the city and the tower which the children of men built. -- Darby translation.
John Gill states concerning Genesis 11:5:
At any rate, there is nothing in Genesis 11:5 that says that this was Jehovah's son that is figured as coming down to see what these men were doing. The scripture does not say that those men saw Jehovah, but they did experience his presence when they began to speak in different languages. This was indeed Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who did this, and evidently His son was also there, as Jehovah says to someone, "Let us go down" (Genesis 11:7), or it is possible that Jehovah was speaking to his holy angels. Nevertheless, the default reasoning is that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is also the only true God, the God and Father of Jesus. -- Exodus 3:14,15; Deuteronomy 18:15-20; John 17:1,3; Acts 3:13-26; 1 Corinthians 8:6; Ephesians 1:3; Hebrews 1:1,2.
See my study:
"Let us" and "One of Us"
jesus.rlbible.com/?p=3442
What About Genesis 12:7?
Genesis 12:1 Jehovah had said to Abram, Go out of thy land, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, to the land that I will shew thee.
Genesis 12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing.
Genesis 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee; and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
Genesis 12:7 And Jehovah appeared to Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land. And there he built an altar to Jehovah who had appeared to him. -- Darby translation.
Yes, in some manner, the God and Father of Jesus appeared to Abraham, and spoke of the seed of Abraham. This does not mean that Abraham actually saw the spirit being of Jehovah.
See my studies:
atonement.rlbible.com/?p=424
Trinitarians will always fall far short of fully comprehending God's purposes in Christ, since the very doctrine leads them away from the foundation of redemption in Jesus.
atonement.rlbible.com
Did Abraham See Jehovah God?
I do not know of any scripture that says that Abraham ever saw the actual spirit being of Jehovah. Jehovah did not lie when he told Moses: "man may not see me and live." -- Exodus 33:20.
Of Jesus, Paul wrote that he now dwells in "in unapproachable light; whom no man has seen, nor can see." (1 Timothy 6:16, World English) Paul spoke of two general different levels of glory: the celestial and the terrestrial. (1 Corinthians 15:39-40) He did not mix the two glories.
Did Moses See Jehovah God?
Again, I do not know of any scripture that says that Moses ever saw the actual spirit being of Jehovah. Jehovah told Moses: "You cannot see my face, for man may not see me and live." (Exodus 33:20) This agrees with what John wrote: "No one has seen God at any time." (John 1:18) I have no reason to think that Jehovah lied to Moses, or that John was lying. I certainly have no reason to call upon the spirit of human imagination so imagine, assume and add to the scriptures that Jehovah is more than one person, and then, based upon that assumpion, further imagine, assume and add to the scripture that while one cannot see one of the alleged persons of Jehovah, they can see another of the alleged persons of Jehovah. The Bible never even presents any idea or concept that Jehovah is more than one person at all at any place or at any time. He is ALWAYS presented as being one person. The idea that Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is more than one person or individual HAS TO BE added to, and read into, the scriptures.
If this was Jesus who made appearances to Moses and Abraham, and one can see the Son of God, but one cannot see the Father of the Son of the God, this would in some way imply that Jesus is not "fully" or "wholly" God (as is often claimed by the trinitarians that each person of their triune god is each fully/wholly God Almighty). To be consistent, one would have to come to the conclusion that the substance of Jesus is not fully the same substance as the Father, since it is being assumed that one cannot see the substance of the Father while one can see the substance of the Son.
Did Jacob Fight With Jehovah God Face-to-Face?
Jacob did fight with one of the angels -- the elohim of Psalm 8:5; Hebrews 2:7 -- of Yahweh face to face. Nevertheless, an angel of Yahweh speaks the words of, acts for, and represents Jehovah; from a human standpoint it would seem as though it were God Almighty himself, just as angels may appear and seem to be "men". -- Genesis 18:2; Joshua 5:13; Judges 13:6; Ezekiel 9:2,3; Zechariah 1:8,11; Mark 16:5; Luke 24:4; John 20:12.
See my studies:
Jacob's Prevailing Prayer
binfo.rlbible.com/?p=218
They Saw God -- Was It Jesus?
jesus.rlbible.com/?p=5024
More studies related to "Angel of Yahweh"
jesus.rlbible.com/?cat=72
What About Genesis 11:5?
Genesis 11:5
And Jehovah came down to see the city and the tower which the children of men built. -- Darby translation.
John Gill states concerning Genesis 11:5:
Not locally or visibly, being immense, omnipresent, and invisible; nor in order to see and take notice of what he otherwise could not see from heaven, for he is omniscient; but this is spoken after the manner of men, and is to be understood of some effects and displays of his power, which were manifest, and showed him to be present.
See my study:
"Let us" and "One of Us"
jesus.rlbible.com/?p=3442
What About Genesis 12:7?
Genesis 12:1 Jehovah had said to Abram, Go out of thy land, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, to the land that I will shew thee.
Genesis 12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing.
Genesis 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee; and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
Genesis 12:7 And Jehovah appeared to Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land. And there he built an altar to Jehovah who had appeared to him. -- Darby translation.
Yes, in some manner, the God and Father of Jesus appeared to Abraham, and spoke of the seed of Abraham. This does not mean that Abraham actually saw the spirit being of Jehovah.
See my studies:
atonement.rlbible.com/?p=424
Trinitarians will always fall far short of fully comprehending God's purposes in Christ, since the very doctrine leads them away from the foundation of redemption in Jesus.
atonement.rlbible.com
