Post by bornagainchristian on Sept 10, 2013 15:15:43 GMT -5
ONE AND THE SAME SPIRIT THAT BESTOWS GIFT
THE FATHER James 1:17 New King James Version (NKJV) 17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning.
THE SON Ephesians 4:7, 11 New King James Version (NKJV) 7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift. 11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers,
THE HOLY SPIRIT Acts 2:38 New King James Version (NKJV) 38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
THE FATHER James 1:17 New King James Version (NKJV) 17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning.
THE SON Ephesians 4:7, 11 New King James Version (NKJV) 7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift. 11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers,
THE HOLY SPIRIT Acts 2:38 New King James Version (NKJV) 38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Nice scriptures, but nothing in them says that the Father, the Son of the Father, and the Father's Holy Spirit are one God. Any such thought has to be imagined, assumed, added to and read into the scriptures. And then one would have to further imagine, assume and add to these scriptures that they are speaking about three different persons of the alleged triune God.
Post by bornagainchristian on Oct 11, 2013 1:52:35 GMT -5
Reslight,
None of these that you gave me really refutes my claim on these three texts that I used. Let me state clearly my claim on these three texts. THE FATHER, SON AND HOLY SPIRIT ARE ONE AND THE SAME SPIRIT THAT BESTOWS GIFT. IT IS CALLED THE GIFT OF THE FATHER, CHRIST GIFT AND THE GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
Here is my question: HOW CAN IT CAN BE CALLED THE GIFT OF CHRIST AND THE GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, IF THE FATHER IS THE ONLY GOD WHO IS THE SOURCE AND ORIGIN OF GIFT?
None of these that you gave me really refutes my claim on these three texts that I used. Let me state clearly my claim on these three texts. THE FATHER, SON AND HOLY SPIRIT ARE ONE AND THE SAME SPIRIT THAT BESTOWS GIFT. IT IS CALLED THE GIFT OF THE FATHER, CHRIST GIFT AND THE GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
Here is my question: HOW CAN IT CAN BE CALLED THE GIFT OF CHRIST AND THE GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, IF THE FATHER IS THE ONLY GOD WHO IS THE SOURCE AND ORIGIN OF GIFT?
I really have nothing to "refute", since one of the texts say anything about three persons in one God, and thus any claim for such has to be forced into what is being said.
The only true God is the source (1 Corinthians 8:6); God works through both His Son (Deuteronomy 18:15-22; Matthew 22:32; 23:39; Mark 11:9,10; 12:26; Luke 13:35; 20:37; John 3:2,17,32-35; 4:34; 5:19,30,36,43; 6:57; 7:16,28; 8:26,28,38; 10:25; 12:49,50; 14:10; 15:15; 17:8,26; 20:17; Acts 2:22,34-36; 3:13-26; 5:30; Romans 15:6; 2 Corinthians 1:3; 8:6; 11:31; Colossians 1:3,15; 2:9-12; Hebrews 1:1-3; Revelation 1:1) and His spirit (Job 26:13; Nehemiah 9:30; Micah 3:8; Zechariah 4:6; 7:12; Matthew 12:28; Acts 10:38); the only true God gave His Spirit (as pertaining to the special gifts of the spirit) to Jesus to give to His followers. (Acts 2:33) If Joe works for a company, and Joe has been given an office in which to work, would we not refer to that office as "Joe's office"?
Exodus 12:51 – It happened the same day, that Yahweh brought the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt by their hosts
Yahweh alone did lead him [Israel/Jacob - verse 9], There was no foreign god with him. — Deuteronomy 32:12.
Exodus 15:22: Moses led Israel onward from the Red Sea, and they went out into the wilderness of Shur; and they went three days in the wilderness, and found no water.
According to the reasoning given, Moses must be a person of God! Actually, God is the source, and Moses was the means by which God led Israel out of Egypt.
Psalm 77:20: You [Yahweh] led your people like a flock, By the hand of Moses and Aaron.
Hosea 12:13 – By a prophet Yahweh brought Israel up out of Egypt, And by a prophet he was preserved.
In this manner it could be said that both Yahweh and Moses brought Israel out of Egypt; it is likewise with the greater Moses, Jesus. — Deuteronomy 18:15-19.
Similarly, the sheep of Jesus are given to him by the unipersonal God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Jesus theregfore refers to sheep as his sheep. Yahweh is the Most High Shepherd; Jesus is the “genuine” (Greek, transliterated, Kalos, Strong’s #2570) shepherd appointed over the sheep by the Most High Shepherd, as opposed to the false shepherds. The Most High Shepherd Yahweh judges His sheep through, by means of the genuine shepherd whom he has appointed. — Psalm 23:1; 96:13; 98:9; Ezekiel 34:2-24; John 5:22,23; 10:11-17,29; Acts 10:42; 17:31; Romans 2:16; 14:10; 1 Corinthians 4:5; 2 Corinthians 5:10.
1 Kings 1:48 – Also thus said the king [David], Blessed be Yahweh, the God of Israel, who has given one to sit on my throne this day, my eyes even seeing it.
1 Kings 2:24 – Now therefore as Yahweh lives, who has established me [Solomon], and set me on the throne of David my father, and who has made me a house, as he promised, surely Adonijah shall be put to death this day
1 Chronicles 29:23 – Then Solomon sat on the throne of Yahweh as king instead of David his father, and prospered; and all Israel obeyed him.
Was Solomon sitting on the throne of David, or was he sitting on the throne of Yahweh? Should one imagine, assume and add to the scriptures that this must mean that David is a person of Yahweh? If we were to apply the way many trinitarians think, to be consistent with such trinitarian thinking, one should also then claim that David is a person of God.
Actually, nothing in any of the scriptures given means that Jesus and His God and the Holy Spirit of God are three persons in one God; any such thought does indeed have to be added to the scriptures and read into the scriptures. No thought of three persons who are all one God is ever presented anywhere in the Bible.