THE FATHER & THE SON ARE ONE GOD, PROOF#2

Still waiting!

Since someone interjected a post in between, this caused the thread to again go to the top, so I missed responding to this until now that the thread is at the bottom of the list of "bornagainchristian"'s posts. Each time a post is added to a thread, it resets the thread to the current date, and it may cause me some delay in responding, as I look at the oldest dated thread to respond to. I am not saying that no one else should respond to "bornagainchristian", but, rather just a way of explaining why I may not respond to the thread for a longer time than usual.


I see nothing much in the verses at all that offer any "proof" that Jesus is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. One can imagine and assume that when Jesus quoted his God from the book of Hosea that he was applying the words as being spoken by himself to someone else; outside of that this, which has to be assumed beyond what is written, there is nothing at all in the verses that would mean that Jesus is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

In Matthew 9:13 Jesus is quoting his God who said "I desire mercy and not sacrifice." It is his God who said, "I desire mercy and not sacrifice." Jesus was not saying that he is the one who said these words in Hosea.

Jesus came to call, not those who professed to be righteous to repentance, but rather he came to call sinner to repentance. Who is repentance toward? Acts 20:21 tells us that is:  "repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ."

Questions about knowledge: Jesus did not quote the rest of what his God said in Hosea 6:6-11. He was specifically stating the principle of his God's desire for mercy and not sacrifice.

I do not see, however, that Jesus' application of this was to the sinners and tax collectors, but rather I see that he was applying this as to his own showing of mercy to these sinners and tax collectors, while the Jewish leaders were concerned about sacrifices -- rituals of their law. (The law of the Jews at that time had many, many added burdens that are not actually part of the law covenant.) Later (Matthew 12:1-7), Jesus quoted Hosea 6:6 again when the Pharisees accused him of breaking the sabbath. The application is the same; Jesus was showing obedience to what his God had said by allowing his disciples to pick heads of grain to eat on the sabbath, while the Jewish leaders were more concerned with what they considered to be breaking the sabbath.

Jesus was NOT saying that he himself desired mercy and not sacrifice of the sinners and tax collectors (although repentance would certainly also call upon one to be merciful, just as God is merciful -- Luke 6:36), but rather Jesus was saying that his God and Father desired mercy and not sacrifice. Jesus provided two examples of showing mercy over sacrifice by means of own actions.

The reason Jesus came to call sinners to repentance is because sin is mearly another word for imperfection and as we are all imperfect and Almighty God cannot look on imperfection without deatroying it,we hae the mediator Christ Jesus to make supplication for us.This has immediately brought in the mercy of the grace of Almighty God and the provision whereby all will receive an earthly resurrection and a second chance of gaining that which was lost by Adam in Eden namely; everlastinhg life as perfect humans under global Edenic conditions.Further interesting point here is that as Almighty God cannot look on imperfection, he therefore could never be 'God in Christ' or the first thing he would have to do is, wipe us all out!

Alexander

This line of resoning still distorts what Jesus said and endeavors to force it to appear to be saying what it does not say. (See my earlier response) Of course, Jesus was indeed quoting his God and Father, the only true God. He was not taking the words of his God and Father and saying that he himself was the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Jesus quoted those words as a reproof of the self-righteousness of the Jewish leaders, and their judgmental attitude toward those whom they considered "sinners". The only true God did not send his Son (Isaiah 61:1; John 17:1,3; 1 John 4:10) to call the "righteous" to repentance (although in reality, there were none righteous, except Jesus himself -- Romans 3:10), but the only true God sent his Son to call sinners to repentance. Repentance is toward God, not toward Jesus. (Acts 20:21) Nothing in this means that we need to call upon the spirit of human imagination so as imagine and assume that Jesus is the only true God and then to further call upon the spirit of human imagination so as to imagine and assume that Jesus is a person of the only true God.

www.mostholyfaith.com/bible/reprints/Z1912NOV.asp#R5135:5

Reslight,

Like what I already said, while Jesus is quoting the saying of Yahweh in the Old Testament; he is already owning this statement for those reasons I stated above.

Jesus quoted those words as a reproof of the self-righteousness of the Jewish leaders, and their judgmental attitude toward those whom they considered "sinners". The only true God did not send his Son (Isaiah 61:1; John 17:1,3; 1 John 4:10) to call the "righteous" to repentance (although in reality, there were none righteous, except Jesus himself -- Romans 3:10), but the only true God sent his Son to call sinners to repentance. Repentance is toward God, not toward Jesus. (Acts 20:21) Nothing in this means that we need to call upon the spirit of human imagination so as imagine and assume that Jesus is the only true God and then to further call upon the spirit of human imagination so as to imagine and assume that Jesus is a person of the only true God.

There is nothing in Matthew 9:9-13 that says "I was sent to call the righteous to repentance" what he said is:
13 But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice.’ For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”
JESUS AND YAHWEH ARE ONE GOD.

I don't wish to be rude but there is absolutely no proof that the Father and the Son are one but there is plenty of proof to the opposite. To believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is the One True God is pure idolatry. He is the Son of God, the beloved of the Father and never claimed to be anything more. Who spoke to Him out of Heaven and claimed Jesus Christ as 'His beloved Son'? To whom did Christ pray when He asked forgiveness for His tormentors? To Himself? Of course not, the whole idea is nonsensical.

This false belief means that people embracing it do not believe that God is immortal, meaning that they think He can die. Well if that were true we would have a massive problem and no hope of eternal life ourselves.

There are a lot of proofs that the Father and the Son are one God. While it is true that the Father and the Son are two distinct persons, it is also true that they are one God. To believed that they are only two distinct persons is only half of the picture. Jesus prays to the Father, not to himself. I guess your question would be: If Jesus and the Father are one God, then Jesus prays to himself when he was here on earth? Jesus is God and Man, fully God and fully Human; Jesus being Human prays to the Father.

Jesus is 100% God and 100% Man.
While Jesus is one person having two natures, his divine nature is distinct from his human nature.
Only his human nature die, not his divine nature (his divine nature is God, it cannot die).