Is Jesus still a man?I wonder why trins claim Jesus is still a man. I heard so many of their explanations but they don't make sense.
Greetings joyful (meshak),
I am not sure what the Trinitarians believe on a number of issues, and not particularly interested. But we have disagreed on this topic before. I believe that Jesus was and still is a man, the Son of God by birth, character and resurrection. He has been changed from a mortal to an immortal and his body has also changed from a mortal body to an immortal body, changed, not replaced or dissolved.Jesus has been exalted to sit at the right hand of the One God, Yahweh, God the Father.
Here are two passages that I claim support the view that Jesus is still a man:
1 Timothy 2:5 (KJV): For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Acts 17:30–31 (KJV): 30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
Anyway, I discovered another forum, and you will be very pleased with me as I quoted your favourite passage Mark 12:28-34 to someone who was advocating the Trinity. Whoops, rather, you like to only quote Mark 12:29 and misapply this and ignore the rest of the passage. Have a nice day.
[quote 1 Timothy 2:5 (KJV): For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
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It seems this is talking about when Jesus was on Earth.
that's my contextual reading.
Mark 12:28-34 to someone who was advocating the Trinity. Whoops, rather, you like to only quote Mark 12:29 and misapply this and ignore the rest of the passage.
I quote all verses if necessary. I just don't bombard the readers with tons of quotes to make my messages simple.
1 Timothy 2:5 (KJV): For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
To say that he is still a man of flesh would be tantamount to saying Jesus never offered that body of flesh with its blood to God, which, in effect, would constitute a denial of the purpose for which he came in the flesh, that is to give that flesh in sacrifice to offset the condemnation in Adam.
Luke 22:19 - And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and gave to them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
John 6:51 - I am the living bread which came down out of heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: yea and the bread which I will give is my flesh, for the life of the world.
1 Corinthians 11:24 - and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, This is my body, which is for you: this do in remembrance of me.
Hebrews 9:26 - else must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once at the end of the ages hath he been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Hebrews 10:10 By which will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Hebrews 10:12 - but he, when he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
1 Peter 2:24 - who his own self bare our sins in his body upon the tree, that we, having died unto sins, might live unto righteousness; by whose stripes ye were healed.
1 Peter 3:18 - Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit.
Jesus' sacrifice included his whole being as a man. It was a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom (price to correspond) for all who are dying in the one man, Adam. -- Romans 5:12-19; 1 Corinthians 15:21,22; 1 Timothy 2:5,6.
The Greek of 1 Timothy 2:5,6 is often rendered and punctuated in such a way as to make it appear that "man, Christ Jesus" is connected in the words before, whereas, in reality, "man, Christ Jesus" is connected with the one who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is in the past.
I believe a better rendering would be:
{1 Timothy 2:5} For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men. [ A ] man, Christ Jesus, {1 Timothy 2:6} [was] the [man] who gave himself [as] a ransom for all, [to be] witnessed in [its] own times,
The Greek in verse 5 contains no verb at all; however, unlike English, Koine Greek does not need a verb to form a sentence. In translation, however, a verb has to be supplied, or else the wording would appear rather nonsensical. Please note also that all punctuation and capitalization are also supplied either by copyists or translators. In verse 6 we find two verbs in the Greek text, one which is obviously referring to the past and is rendered as "gave" above and another which is referring to the future, rendered as "to be witnessed" above. The verb supplied with "one God' is obviously referring to the present tense, but the verb referring to "man Christ Jesus" should be governed by the verb rendered as "gave" above, with is in the past. The thought is that it was a man who gave himself as a ransom for all.
I am adding the above the study cited.
Last Edit: Nov 22, 2023 10:57:27 GMT -5 by ResLight
1 Timothy 2:5 (KJV): For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
To say that he is still a man of flesh would be tantamount to saying Jesus never offered that body of flesh with its blood to God, which, in effect, would constitute a denial of the purpose for which he came in the flesh, that is to give that flesh in sacrifice to offset the condemnation in Adam.
I believe that the body of Jesus that died was raised again after three days and then changed to a glorious spirit body, substantial. I believe that like the angels he can withhold this glory, and he appeared to the apostles after the resurrection in this fashion, even revealing the wounds in his hands. Jesus is still a man, but now exalted and glorified.
The "one God" of 1 Corinthians 8:6 prepared a body of flesh and blood for his firstborn son (Colossians 1:15; Hebrews 10:5) and made Jesus a little lower than the angels so that Jesus could offer that body of flesh with its blood to his God for our sins. -- Matthew 26:26-28; Luke 22:19; Romans 3:25; Colossians 1:14; Ephesians 5:2; Hebrews 2:9; 9:14; 10:10; 1 Peter 2:24; 3:18; 1 John 1:7; Revelation 1:5.
While in the days of his flesh (Hebrews 5:7), Jesus only had the glory of a sinless man, a glory that is a little lower than the angels. (Psalm 8:5; Hebrews 2:9) Unlike Adam, Jesus never fell short of that glory through sin. -- Romans 3:23; 5:12-19; 2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 John 3:5.
If Jesus had been born into the world as a sinner as the rest of mankind, he would not have had anything to offer for our sins, and would himself have been in need of another man who was without sin to become his savior. -- Matthew 26:26-28; Luke 22:19; Romans 3:25; 1 Corinthians 15:21,22; 39-41; Colossians 1:14; Ephesians 5:2; Hebrews 2:9; 9:14; 10:10,12; 1 Peter 2:24; 3:18; 1 John 1:7; Revelation 1:5.
Jesus' body of flesh was thus not "made crooked" as the rest of mankind, nor was Jesus born into this world under the curse that God has put upon all mankind through Adam and Eve. -- Genesis 3:16-19; Ecclesiastes 1:2-9; 7:13; Romans 5:12-19; 8:20-22.
Jesus was therefore without sin and, unlike Adam, remained obedient to his God until death, and he thus had the price necessary to give in sacrifice to his God to pay for the whole world condemned in Adam. It is due to that obedience that Jesus could pay the price, the wages of sin (Romans 5:6,8; 6:23; 1 Corinthians 15:3; 1 Peter 2:21-24; 3:18) for all mankind. That was the purpose of his coming in the flesh (1 John 4:2,3; 2 John 1:7), that is, that he would sacrifice that sinless flesh for the church and the whole world. (Luke 22:19; John 6:51; Hebrews 10:10; 1 Peter 3:18; 1 John 2:2; 4:9,10) Jesus thus offered his sinless flesh to his God as an offering for sin. -- Matthew 20:28; John 6:51; Luke 22:19; Romans 3:25; 5:8,12-19; 1 Corinthians 15:21,22; Ephesians 5:2; Titus 2:14; Hebrews 10:5,10; 1 Peter 3:18; 1 John 2:2; 4:10.
Jesus could not raise up his former body while he was the oblivious death condition in sheol/hades. (Psalm 16:9,10; Ecclesiastes 9:10; Acts 2:27-32) His God had to first save Jesus from death by raising Jesus up out of the death condition before Jesus could raise up his former body for various appearances.
If God had raised Jesus back into his body of flesh and he still is in that body of flesh to this day as many claim, then there has been no offering to God for sin. God sent his Son into this world to save sinners. Jesus did this by sacrificing his sinless body of flesh with its blood to pay the price of the condemnation that is in Adam. What was needed in such a savior sent by God was that he be human, without sin, and that he, in effect, takes Adam's place. Thus, he could take upon himself the condemnation that is upon Adam and all of Adam's descendants. As result, the condemnation would be lifted upon Adam and all of Adam's descendants. To do this, God prepared a body of flesh and blood for His Son, and made His Son a little lower than the angels so that His Son could offer that body of flesh with its blood to Jehovah for the sin of the world, thus becoming the savior of the world whom Jehovah sent. -- Luke 22:19; John 1:29; 6:51; 14:19; Romans 5:12-19; 1 Corinthians 15:21,22; 1 Timothy 2:5,6; Hebrews 2:9;10:5,10; 1 Peter 2:24; 3:18; 1 John 4:9-14.
Thus, God did not raise Jesus in the flesh, but in the spirit. (2 Peter 3:13) Nevertheless, Jesus, before his ascension, did indeed raise up his former body for various appearances. After Jesus' God (Micah 5:4; Ephesians 1:3) raised Jesus from the dead (Acts 2:24,32,26; 3:15; 4:10; 10:40; 13:30,33,37; 17:31; Romans 4:24; 8:11; 10:9; 1 Corinthians 6:14; 15:15; Galatians 1:1; Colossians 2:11,12; 1 Thessalonians 1:9,10; 1 Peter 1:21; 3:18), Jesus did not immediately ascend to heaven, but he stayed on the earth for 40 days, during which time, as he had foretold (John 2:19-21), he raised up his former body for various appearances to his disciples. (Luke 24:39; John 20:20,25,27; Acts 1:3) It was not until after he ascended into heaven that Jesus became a priest who could offer to his God (Ephesians 5:2; Hebrews 9:14) his body of flesh with its blood for our sins, after which he sat down at God's right hand (Hebrews 10:10,12), since as long as he was on earth he could not be a priest. (Hebrews 8:4) This does not mean that God raised Jesus in the flesh and not in the spirit. It would simply mean that Jesus was first raised from the oblivious condition of death with the heavenly, celestial bodily glory. Jesus then could raise up his body of flesh as needed for various appearances.
If we reason that Jesus was raised in the flesh, rather than in the spirit, then his resurrection would have simply been earthly, fleshly, and not heavenly, spiritual; he would, in effect, still have been a man, having a glory that is a little lower than the angels, and he would again be in the days of his flesh here on the earth. (1 Corinthians 15:39-41; Hebrews 2:7; 5:7) Jesus was put to death in the flesh for our sins, but he was not raised in the flesh, but in the spirit. -- 1 Peter 3:18.