Yahweh in Genesis 19:24

trevorl
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Posts: 45

Yahweh in Genesis 19:24 Jul 19, 2023 23:26:25 GMT -5

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Post by trevorl on Jul 19, 2023 23:26:25 GMT -5

Jul 15, 2023 21:10:25 GMT -5 ResLight said:

Genesis 19:24 - Jehovah Rained Fire From Jehovah

I have updated this study slightly at:
jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2017/04/gen19-24.html

There is nothing in Genesis 19:24 that presents Jehovah as two different persons nor is there anything in the Bible that connects Jesus as allegedly being one of the Jehovahs spoken of.

Greetings Reslight,

I believe that the first "Yahweh"mentioned in Genesis 19:24 is the Angel who represented the One God, Yahweh, God the Father:

Genesis 19:24 (KJV): Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

The same concept is also found in the following, where the Angel bears the Yahweh Name:

Zechariah 3:1–3 (KJV): 1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. 2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire? 3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.

I also believe that Jude alludes to this incident and identifies this Angel as Michael the Archangel.
Jude 9 (KJV): Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Kind regards

Trevor

Last Edit: Jul 20, 2023 12:53:46 GMT -5 by ResLight

ResLight
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Posts: 1,853

Yahweh in Genesis 19:24 Jul 20, 2023 12:55:46 GMT -5

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Post by ResLight on Jul 20, 2023 12:55:46 GMT -5

Obviously, there is only one Jehovah spoken of in Genesis 19:24, the same one Jehovah spoken of in Deuteronomy 6:4; Isaiah 61:1,2 and Micah 5:4. The Bible does not ever say that there are two Jehovahs. Jehovah in Genesis 19:24 is the same Jehovah who is the "one God" of 1 Corinthians 8:6 and the God and Father of Jesus in Ephesians 1:3; 1 Peter 1:3.

Jehovah evidently at times appeared by means of his angels, angels of Jehovah do speak and act for Jehovah, and thus Jehovah may be spoken to through His angels.

Regarding Zechariah 3:1-3 and a little about Jude 1:9, see my study:
jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2016/12/zec-3-2.html

For some studies related to Jude 1:9:
jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/p/jude.html#jude1-9

For some studies related to Angels of Jehovah
jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/p/angel-of-jehovah.html

trevorl
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Posts: 45

Yahweh in Genesis 19:24 Jul 21, 2023 15:57:06 GMT -5

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Post by trevorl on Jul 21, 2023 15:57:06 GMT -5

Jul 20, 2023 12:55:46 GMT -5 ResLight said:

Obviously, there is only one Jehovah spoken of in Genesis 19:24, the same one Jehovah spoken of in Deuteronomy 6:4; Isaiah 61:1,2 and Micah 5:4. The Bible does not ever say that there are two Jehovahs. Jehovah in Genesis 19:24 is the same Jehovah who is the "one God" of 1 Corinthians 8:6 and the God and Father of Jesus in Ephesians 1:3; 1 Peter 1:3.

Jehovah evidently at times appeared by means of his angels, angels of Jehovah do speak and act for Jehovah, and thus Jehovah may be spoken to through His angels.

Greetings again Reslight ,

Yes, I agree with you here, that there is only One God, Yahweh, God the Father. The occurrence of another being in Genesis 18 and 19 spoken of as “Yahweh” is Yahweh’s Angel speaking and acting on Yahweh’s behalf, and through whom Yahweh speaks and can be spoken to as you state.
Genesis 18:13-14,16-22,33 (KJV): 13 And the LORD said unto Abraham, Wherefore did Sarah laugh, saying, Shall I of a surety bear a child, which am old? 14 Is any thing too hard for the LORD? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.
16 And the men rose up from thence, and looked toward Sodom: and Abraham went with them to bring them on the way. 17 And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do; 18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him? 19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him. 20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; 21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know. 22 And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD.
33 And the LORD went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place.

Three "men" appeared to Abraham, but only two Angels went down to Sodom Genesis 19:1. The same sort of language and interaction between the Angel who bears the Yahweh Name and Moses is found when the Angel of Yahweh (not Yahweh Himself) appears to Moses in the burning bush Exodus 3:1-8. We have difficulty with this manner of speaking by the Angel or Messenger of Yahweh as he speaks in the first person.

Kind regards
Trevor

Last Edit: Jul 21, 2023 16:04:58 GMT -5 by trevorl

ResLight
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Posts: 1,853

Yahweh in Genesis 19:24 Jul 21, 2023 22:17:00 GMT -5

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Post by ResLight on Jul 21, 2023 22:17:00 GMT -5

[quote author="@trevorl33 And the LORD went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place.[/font][/p]

Three "men" appeared to Abraham, but only two Angels went down to Sodom Genesis 19:1. The same sort of language and interaction between the Angel who bears the Yahweh Name and Moses is found when the Angel of Yahweh (not Yahweh Himself) appears to Moses in the burning bush Exodus 3:1-8. We have difficulty with this manner of speaking by the Angel or Messenger of Yahweh as he speaks in the first person.

Kind regards
Trevor

[/quote]

The messenger of Jehovah many times delivers the message he was sent to deliver in the first person. This does not mean that the messenger of Jehovah is actually Jehovah. I once knew a person who at times served as a translator in court. She had to deliver the words exactly as spoken. For instance, if the defendant spoke in the first person, using "I", "my" etc., she had to translate it exactly in the first person, and then the prosecutor may then have spoken to her as though she were the defendant, using the defendant's name, etc. I believe that this was what was happening with the angels of Jehovah, as recorded in the Bible. When the two angels said that Jehovah had sent them to destroy the city and then they said that Jehovah was going to the destroy the city, I don't think that they were claiming to be Jehovah, but Jehovah did his work through, by means of, his angels. (Genesis 39:13,14) Jehovah often used others to perform His work, and yet He spoke of Himself as doing the work. (Exodus 3:8,10; 12:17; 18:10; Numbers 16:28; Deuteronomy 32:12; Judges 2:6,18; 3:9,10; 6:34; 11;29; 13:24,25; 14:6,19; 15:14,18; 16:20,28-30; 2 Kings 4:27; Psalm 77:20; 78:52; Isaiah 43:11; 45:1-6; Hosea 12:13; Acts 7:36) I believe that it is similar with the angels of Jehovah.

jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2016/12/angelofjah.html

trevorl
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Posts: 45

Yahweh in Genesis 19:24 Jul 21, 2023 23:23:05 GMT -5 ResLight likes this

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Post by trevorl on Jul 21, 2023 23:23:05 GMT -5

Jul 21, 2023 22:17:00 GMT -5 ResLight said:

The messenger of Jehovah many times delivers the message he was sent to deliver in the first person. This does not mean that the messenger of Jehovah is actually Jehovah. I once knew a person who at times served as a translator in court. She had to deliver the words exactly as spoken. For instance, if the defendant spoke in the first person, using "I", "my" etc., she had to translate it exactly in the first person, and then the prosecutor may then have spoken to her as though she were the defendant, using the defendant's name, etc. I believe that this was what was happening with the angels of Jehovah, as recorded in the Bible.

Greetings again Reslight,

I agree with your explanation and I like your interesting illustration. In the old days of Telegrams and Telegram boys on bicycles, when my mate was to drive the 1000 miles from Sydney to Adelaide his parents who were to some extent concerned with his driving insisted that he send a Telegram on his arrival. In those days you were allowed twelve words before an extra charge. He sent a two word Telegram "Here, Mal", and if the Telegram boy read the message to them they would not have thought that this Telegram boy was introducing himself as "Mal" (Malcolm), or that he was saying that he was standing there "here".

Kind regards

Trevor

Bible Light Discussion Forums

Jesus and His God

Post by trevorl on Jul 19, 2023 23:26:25 GMT -5

Post by ResLight on Jul 20, 2023 12:55:46 GMT -5

Post by trevorl on Jul 21, 2023 15:57:06 GMT -5

Post by ResLight on Jul 21, 2023 22:17:00 GMT -5

Post by trevorl on Jul 21, 2023 23:23:05 GMT -5

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