Post by ResLight on Mar 31, 2021 19:46:03 GMT -5
John 14:9 - Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and dost thou not know me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; how sayest thou, Show us the Father?
This scripture is often presented as proof of the trinity doctrine.
At most, one could imagine and assume that Jesus is saying that he is his Father, but one really has to create a lot of distortion and additions to what Jesus said to make his words mean that he was saying that he is a person of God, as is taught in the trinity doctrine. Indeed, I have never actually seen a trinitarian give any good explanation as to how Jesus' words would mean that Jesus is a person of God, but that Jesus is not the Father.
Jesus said: “He who has seen me has seen the Father.” Did he mean that everyone who saw him walking around on earth had seen the Father? No, because he also had earlier said to the unbelieving Jews: “The Father himself, who sent me, has testified about me. You have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his form.” (John 5:37) And again in John 8:19: “You know neither me, nor my Father. If you knew me, you would know my Father also.”
This indicates that Jesus meant that if his disciples had seen him, that they also had seen his Father, for he did the works of his Father. (John 8:38) As John said: “No one has seen God at any time. The one and only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him.” (John 1:18) And Jesus also had said: “Therefore everyone who hears from the Father, and has learned, comes to me. Not that any man has seen the Father, except he who is from God. He has seen the Father.” — John 6:45,46.
However, Jesus in the context does tell us what he meant when he said that he who had seen him had seen the Father also: “Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I tell you, I speak not from myself; but the Father living in me does his works.” (John 14:10) Rather than claiming to be God Almighty, he is saying that he spoke the words of God Almighty his Father, and thus in this manner the Father could be seen in him. This is in harmony with the prophecy that Yahweh would put his words into his mouth, and that he would speak in Yahweh’s name. — Deuteronomy 18:15-19.
Jesus was stating in John 14:9 that he so reflected the Father’s character, that to observe and learn of him was tantamount to observing and learning of the Father. Literally, of course, “no man has seen God at any time”. — John 1:18; 1 John 4: 12; 2 Corinthians 4:4; Colossians 1:15.
Jesus, therefore, was simply saying that one can see the only true God in, by means of, himself, through his works and words. However, there is only one Supreme Being -- who is the source of all, as Paul wrote (1 Corinthians 8:6), but many ignore what Paul wrote, and invent the idea that God is more than one person, or that God presents Himself in three modes, etc., and thus would add what they have imagined and assumed into the scriptures.
For more related to John 14:7-10, see my study:
Seeing the Father in Jesus.
jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2017/03/john14-7.html
This scripture is often presented as proof of the trinity doctrine.
At most, one could imagine and assume that Jesus is saying that he is his Father, but one really has to create a lot of distortion and additions to what Jesus said to make his words mean that he was saying that he is a person of God, as is taught in the trinity doctrine. Indeed, I have never actually seen a trinitarian give any good explanation as to how Jesus' words would mean that Jesus is a person of God, but that Jesus is not the Father.
Jesus said: “He who has seen me has seen the Father.” Did he mean that everyone who saw him walking around on earth had seen the Father? No, because he also had earlier said to the unbelieving Jews: “The Father himself, who sent me, has testified about me. You have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his form.” (John 5:37) And again in John 8:19: “You know neither me, nor my Father. If you knew me, you would know my Father also.”
This indicates that Jesus meant that if his disciples had seen him, that they also had seen his Father, for he did the works of his Father. (John 8:38) As John said: “No one has seen God at any time. The one and only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him.” (John 1:18) And Jesus also had said: “Therefore everyone who hears from the Father, and has learned, comes to me. Not that any man has seen the Father, except he who is from God. He has seen the Father.” — John 6:45,46.
However, Jesus in the context does tell us what he meant when he said that he who had seen him had seen the Father also: “Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I tell you, I speak not from myself; but the Father living in me does his works.” (John 14:10) Rather than claiming to be God Almighty, he is saying that he spoke the words of God Almighty his Father, and thus in this manner the Father could be seen in him. This is in harmony with the prophecy that Yahweh would put his words into his mouth, and that he would speak in Yahweh’s name. — Deuteronomy 18:15-19.
Jesus was stating in John 14:9 that he so reflected the Father’s character, that to observe and learn of him was tantamount to observing and learning of the Father. Literally, of course, “no man has seen God at any time”. — John 1:18; 1 John 4: 12; 2 Corinthians 4:4; Colossians 1:15.
Jesus, therefore, was simply saying that one can see the only true God in, by means of, himself, through his works and words. However, there is only one Supreme Being -- who is the source of all, as Paul wrote (1 Corinthians 8:6), but many ignore what Paul wrote, and invent the idea that God is more than one person, or that God presents Himself in three modes, etc., and thus would add what they have imagined and assumed into the scriptures.
For more related to John 14:7-10, see my study:
Seeing the Father in Jesus.
jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2017/03/john14-7.html